Jon,

HP is a product of his myopic self interest arm chair pundit thinking.

He wants an easy to digest answer. one that doesn't make him think too deeply in case doing so it may reveal an inconvenient truth one that may make him feel uncomfortable with the way he leads and views life.

Any marketing person/ sales person knows to be successful one never asks a question in the 'closing sale' that you don't already know the answer. So how do you do that? Simply by limiting the scope of the discussion. One way is to declare all other influencing factors as irrelevant or externalities... (aka controlling the topic) this is exactly what the right and some on the left do.

He doesn't want to address the, logic of the implications of what he says and covers this with "I've tried before and there's no point ... you're indoctrinated". That's code for either I can't control where this is going or I might lose (the point see first paragraph).

I say that way because I in specific try to raise the 'mitigating' factors or their externalities etc for further consideration.

I've never met a "Rightie" who is able or prepared to to consider factor of a deeper level. Think of the right's arguments like a the leaning tower of Pisa. It was built over a couple of centuries. . What they discovered was that the building was over time, beginning to lean so their reaction was to compensate. There were several upper story fixes.. by shorting walls on one side etc ( It's history is fascinating) rather than deal with the inappropriate to the soil foundations. Consequently the current fix is horrendously expensive and not certain to work. My point for both the second stage builders and the American political party aficionados is simply “a stitch in time ….” and now is that time. But the “righties” simplistically want to shorten the walls on one side . And refuse to look deeper than the current floor level.

Compare the depth of what they say with Chomsky's on just about any social or political point.

NB I don't agree with all of Chomsky's conclusions particularly about socialism however he has a point about anarchism (see the real meaning). I raise that because it includes libertarian concepts.

In reality the whole American re- definitioning is no more than simple no more than advanced marketing techniques.

the meta point I've long striving for is that left/right are artificial divisions.

They are simply marketing creations mechanisms in order to garner power over the majority.

Political parties are simply political consolidators. In order to get a majority they need to simplify human thoughts into clearly saleable simplified generalisations ergo polarise the thought process into left OR right.

(Marketing Differentiation) . Like all long term organisation the followers must sacrifice their individuality, identity to the good of the party.i.e. Woe betide the individual congress person who speaks out against party policy ( they are disloyal yarder yarder) regardless of their personal convictions ( peer pressure and fear are the motivators) .

At some stage the longevity of he party supersedes the rights of the individual.... i. e. the people serve the tool. This party/ corporate entity creates the means for the increasingly moral 'flexibilty' (read ambition) to use the structure for personal gain. See the Redford old movie “ the candidate” … he gained notoriety by being high moral but during the process of getting elected he had to compromise and obfuscate until at the end he's elected and asks his campaign manager two questions;

what is it that we stand for?

and what is it we do next?

The answer to the latter was published in the WP low people on totem pole newbies spend 4-6 hrs a day begging for money to fund re-election and donations for the party.

The similarity to service industries' sales people ( the real job of financial analyst's, brokers etc is clear.)

So who makes policy etc ? A minority of senior members and the organisational bureaucracy.

Consider the similarities of a political party to a business/ corporation. … They aren't part of the public service What is their product? Power and the actual members of Congress members are the sales staff .

Now think about the ratio of 'productive sales members' (read congress members) to party 'non productive' party staff wages etc? Keep in mind this doesn't include there is a bureaucratic army paid by the tax payer to help members do their job.

In effect political parties non elected policy makers. Ask your self have you got a better explanation why a party would stop any policy even ones they while in power supported answer they are following party directives.

Now let's look at the parties. In reality there are two sort of members those who do paid work for the parties and the ordinary members who have 2cents worth of nothing actual power so who are they selling/ providing power to? Do the math.

Frankly it's not rocket science , even with the most charitable view of party power who are the stake holders a small minority of those who vote republican … the GOP have been doing fast foot work to give the rank and file member the impression of giving them what they want. Take the last GOP candidate selection campaign it was a circus and it was patently obvious who was the anointed candidate from day 1 Romney. The campaign process was to sell him to the members. Ask yourself why they picked him ? Because he was the establishment’s choice . That's why the campaign is run like a no holds bared soap campaign or a rock concert promotion.

Competence is a low order factor it's the candidates saleability. Ask yourself what real power other than declaring war does POTUS have ? Look at Obama perhaps one of the most competent presidents for some time but every step he took he was blocked, filibustered … why some business would have lost power.

Do you really think Obama had free call of the shot with the banks that caused the GFC.? I know he didn't because the system is skewed to the minority.

BTW

The founding fathers had lengthy arguments about party government look it up for exactly the reasons I wrote here.

George Washington ( ex general) was opposed to the undue power of the military manufacturing Complex.

Look it up I didn't invent the stuff.

The civil war was more over profit than slavery... the south was agrarian based (landed gentry) the north were the industrialists and bankers … the people were proxy pawns ...guess who won? Guess who always win ? 

In truth folks all political ideologies share similar features not necessarily always the same features and never exclusively.

In my view parties asside the differences between the righties and the lefties isn't really a matter morality it's simply a matter of degree. 

I don't approve of nor am I encouraging teen pregnancies ergo my views on that subject are right of centre . The difference between me and say a tea partier is that want to impose their views on others and I am pragmatic enough to know I can't . And I'm also wise enough to recognize that if we sanction them all we are doing is saving up the problems to bite us later. ... A stitch in time ... view. 

Conversely the TPer is obsessed with the immediate and to hell with the future. By anybodies reasoning I'm simply less extreme  

I SPY WITH MY LITTLE EYE: A Little Less of this Convenient Aphasia

I SPY WITH MY LITTLE EYE: A Little Less of this Convenient Aphasia: Here in the Boston Area one can still be shocked by the range of the bombing's impact. I just discovered, yesterday--so more than a week...

What can we do about the firearms check failure

Those who need to stop "drinking the (MSM) Kool aid", move out of the echo chamber etc can't or won't because the MSM is their emotional (confirmation) touch stone that they are part of something greater than themselves.

The media is a business to sell advertising. To do that they supply what the public wants (so long as it meets with their paying client's [business' interests]).

They have discovered pandering to the emotions is more effective (successful/profitable).

There is no commercial way that news rooms full of university communication grads would be *allowed* (by their employer) to sacrifice easy, cheap profit for a truth that would threaten their profitable target clients.

The consumer's contribution to their bottom line is the same as a tethered goat to a gristly bear hunter… trivial.

In reality the journalists’ role, in MSM, is that of the sheep dog to round up the sheep (the great unwashed consumer) for the farmer (MSM). Like all (always business men) graziers (sheep farmers) they are looking for cheaper production methods in order to make more profit when selling their sheep to the manufacturers ( to be fleeced or butchered in the name of profit). Telling the MSM to consider the welfare of the people would be as productive as an animal rights activist telling a glazier to build a music room for sheep to “chill out in”.

 BTW graziers have Fire arms and not noted for their ‘progressive attitudes’!

The real question to me is how to better meet the emotional needs of the “sheep” so as to better help the flock as a whole?

As Chomsky says (in the minds of the “sheep”) they have genuine (REAL) concerns” and yelling at or belittling them will only make them more agitated, frightened, defensive… achieve nothing positive.

In my mind the 75% public who say they  want to pass closing loop holes in Fire arm checks were given the vehicle and really had the will, could sink the gun lobby’s obstructionist campaign.

 Keep in mind to businesses (despite their rhetoric), it is a business decision i.e. cost benefit/ decision.

I'm proposing that the public, say with Congressional members support and other groups (Like PTAs, victims support groups, mother’s clubs etc)   start “an independent, single interest, *temporary*  group, to raise money to OFF SET only the lobby’s attack on incumbent congressional members’ seats (either party) it would be a game changer.

  IMPORTANT: the group must have a sunset clause in it’s constitution to stop it becoming anything else or going beyond it’s mandate. This would head off counter claims of being a front for the left 

This would de party politicize the issue;

Sharpen the Grass roots Public V Business nature of the issue;

*Raise the cost of opposition further marginalizes benefit to the fire arm checks* (Cost V benefit), at the moment it all one (the wrong) way.

Answer to conservatives arguments on Social security

re responsibilities to social Security

Let me start by rejecting as emotively biased unhelpful spin the term. No state by definition can be ever “ a nanny state” literally , figuratively or functionally. It's not a matter of common speak, it's an aggressive loaded term to stifle a objective two way conversation. It is a n old old sales technique call closed discussion.
Essentially it's designed to WIN a sale not negotiate where there is a possibility of an unfavorable result … it's simply a dominance (bullying) technique . One that most women understand who have dominating or over bearing husbands or bosses. The sub text is “I'm the dominant one here now here this ( I know best) .”
My stance is and always has been “ I’m examinator I examine not proselyte... what works for me may not work for anybody else... more on that later.

This might be a bit nuanced and expressed before but it's worth repeating.
*I always go back to REAL basics *. Social Security is part of a society so I ask “what is the purpose of societies?” The fundamental answer is MUTUAL benefit and protection. the key word is *mutual* as in everyone.
It is an empirical fact: that societies generally fail when they stop doing that either from insurrection and or external help. The obvious exception is conquest but that is another topic.

Simply put a society that excludes its own members builds lethal internal self destruction. There hasn't been a society ever that hasn't been subject to those conditions and factors.
Logic clearly dictates that one person living in an absolute profligate life style while others in abject hopelessness doesn't meet the above criteria. In equality must be relative to others in that society. What constitutes abjectness in America is different to that of African villages. However, combine the the two value systems and the more luxurious one takes precedence. i.e. the Africans want American life style. And an now you've created in equity and hostilities hence national conflicts.

In a pragmatic sense social security (welfare) is simply the price one has to pay if one lives in a society/country/state city et al.
Realistically the only way to avoid the responsibility is to become Robinson Crusoe and even then there is a price to pay, lack of amenities and technology.

We then advance the argument to the concept of Equity (not equality). By that I mean fairness/justice . And To some this is where (Objective) reasoning become gets very complex because emotional perceptions and self-interest kicks in.

Again I go back to the basics . Here one must read a bit to understand the nature and make up of homo sapiens.
At this point many people find the logic all too much and put in a coverall....religion because on the surface the answers are clear.

Even there Christians and Muslims et al INSIST that “we are our brothers keepers” and that judgement is mine sayeth the Lord . And then comes a range of commandments most of which man generally tries his had at “attorney reasoning” using 'the letter of the law' from arcane unrelated texts to conveniently justify breaking those commandments. He also instructs us to forgive other trespasses .... etc. In short God commands us to look after the poor and unfortunate not just those we know and feel they're worthy (what ever that means)
Even in the echelons of the highest religious intellectuals/ thinkers most brilliant and competent theologians they wrestle with real mind cracking conundrums.
i.e. at what point does Science and logic cease and god(s) begin? Most Christians by number don't believe in “intelligent design” / creationism per se.

Almost every month new science comes out blurring the boundaries between how much ability we have to determine our life path. i.e. Are you aware that some of your actions prior to puberty ( the time of sperm creation) potentially effects the physicality and mental capacity of your children.... and maybe your grand children.
No! it doesn't mean my genes made me do it... it does mean that some factors in your health and development may have been effected by some physical activity of your Grandpa. ( it's called epigenetics those actions may effect the WAY the genes express themselves.) its no longer just a mix of genes and your environment. Anyone who breed animals knows that a gene or genes affect multiple factors i.e. blue eyed pure white cats are deaf.
Even Mensa The organization for people that have IQs in the top 5-10% of all people Acknowledge that there are achievers and non achievers.
The reality is making broad judgements about who to help and who not to with out specific and individual knowledge is a bit like saying help those with say strain XYZ flu but not someone with MS or Downe's Syndrome. because the latter two are currently incurable or may have genetic triggers.
How do you know that the 18 yo single mother while born pretty/sexy looking wasn't born with sub optimum IQ ( with all the urges but not the skills?) and the baby was due to some smart ass uni jerk on Summer break taking advantage of him. Or she's been a serial victim. Mum and dad are fundies and thrown her out what as a society are you suggesting we do ? Lock her up, Sterilize her? She's not bright not incompetent ?
Seriously, who's going to adopt a child that may or may not be retarded or worse? Parkinson's, Huntington's, MS or XX factor .

As a side issue the  Tea party and  are anti abortions and Chad is for being able to fund a child for their rest of their dependent life. Who plans for a foetus that is Downes, cisticfibrosis or a myriad other disorders ? Most of which can't be predicted before the foetus exists. In the conservatives' reasoning no one but the super rich would be entitled to have children. By both your reasoning why should you pay taxes that may or may not go to maintaining those mandated births and their life time maintenance ? By your standards most average families would be under the US system would be condemned to a life of poverty and derision, in ignorance of their specifics. Like trained (university trained)social workers etc can't be relied on to recognise a chancer from a person needing help. But some watch Pox News and read bald numbers and axe grinding senstionalizing MSM and thus feel themselves In a position to swing the financial/moral axe.. I think that is the definition of bias/ prejudice and bigotry.

For all those and many more reasons I'm not inclined to judge who deserves help and who doesn't. Nor am I inclined to follow some dogmatic (polarised ) notion of absolutes.... I examine not proselyte... what works for me may not work for others. Hence I'll challenge what a person says but resist attacking them personally with silly challenges like "You want to...." I don't and frankly neither should anyone else.
Any body want to challenge the logic or want further proofs of concept ? Don't hesitate to comment
Like the Buddhist Abbotess ( she's got 2 Doctorates one in religion, the other in sociology and a degree in psychology.) said on TV the other night I would welcome proofs that Buddha was wrong. The other religions all said that they were right and it is a matter of faith.... really?

Responding to BLACK radio TWib's perspective to forget the past and get on with the future

Ok you don't agree with the idea of forget about the past and get on with the future ... I get that, but why can't LL Kool J PERSONALLY believing in it. As a "half cast" I 'll be damned if I'll seek the permission of either side to express what I think. That folks

BTW the civil war was more than just over black emancipation per se. especially given that the Nth in the early days made much of their money slave trading and transporting. I'm led to believe that that is the origin of the term Yankee (yank the slaves from their homes in Africa and transport them to Where ever.) .

I would put it to you that the major cause was a power battle between the two the industrialists of the north and the Landed Gentry of the South. Slaves were simply cheap labor to support CAPITALIST PROFIT. Keep in mind that capitalism is built on the powerful exploiting the less powerful.

Have you read southern news papers of the day? The wealthy of any color or gender see the privilege wealth creates as a right/entitlement.

The point you are missing is that the landed Gentry " southern White gentlemen" were the 1%ers of the time. The bulk of the white population weren't rich nor necessarily slave owners.

What you fail to take into consideration is that like the black slaves most of the whites came from many different 'cultures' and were hand to mouth poor. They , both black and white, had nothing in common except their skin colors and shared experience (suffering).

Humans black white or anywhere in between come from the same genetic stocks (out of Africa 1,2 &3). They share the same genotype and therefore the same generic motivations despite the differing phenotypes. One of the most powerful is to protect what they have and what they know or most comfortable with.

It therefore should not be a surprise that the Sthn 1%ers stirred up the the poor white (trash) most of whom were power naive under educated by way of fear of loss of individual rights etc... (As LJoy indicated negative is a better motivator of the rump than high minded complex principal).

The southern flag to a son of the South is more about their personal rebellious spirit and pride in the only difference they have....their white skin. Everyone want's to feel special or else we wouldn't have invented religion

Of course there are consequences even extremes (anybody want to argue , there isn't black extremists? or blacks that don't exploit their own kind(sic)?) but as the song says they are still hurting over the emotional defeat 150 years ago. Keep in mind these are the people who gave rise to the 80yo+ feud between the Hatfieds and the McCoys.

Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick the Irish are still warring over 1066 and the "battle of the Boyne" and the riots of 1927.

The converse is true of your view that the southern flag represents suppression of the blacks ... i.e. to them it is celebrating them being white.... as the Japanese flag means being Japanese... you want institutionalised racism study their laws a bit I think you'll be horrified?

Yes the flag is abused as is being 'merican. I'd like a $ for every USA tourist who has tried it on, being a bully or simply an ass hole in other countries. " we're American we demand better service ... why can't you(Asians)speak properly" (really?? how problematic is that?) Fortunately I carried an Aussie passport too so I avoided the oh so inscrutable push back.'solly I no speak ENGLISH'... when they did, with a mid Atlantic ascent.

Consider for a moment what the Stars and stripes means to say the semi or uneducated natives of PNG or East Timor. It is offensive to them as it represents to the latter US backing of the nation ( Indonesia ) that nearly exterminated their entire race and culture... they are of different stock and religion (Christian and Melanesian ) to the Indonesians (the world's most populous Muslim nation and essentially east Asian)

So who's perspective is right ? Isn't it smarter to do as the song suggests ? The same as Sth Africa and yes East Timor.

Also note I lived in SC for 18 years and I couldn't count the number of whites I knew who despised the Tea party and/or the religious extreme right (you parodied, not particularly well. The accent was all over the place Their speech pattern and word choice would be far more simple. They wouldn't use your favorite word "problematic" and oh yes not all Tea baggers and their 125th st logic are from the South ... if you check Wapo and Rolling stone you see they are stronger in the mid west and central US. As Chomsky rightly points out they have concerns and legitimate gripes... But circumstances limit their deductive powers and their flawed rhetoric and methodology are the inevitable consequences.

Think of it like this in the 1930/40 there was a popular radio show where two white men pretended to be two loveable (if very white stereotyped)scoundrel poor blacks "Amos and Andy". If it was played today there would be hell to pay.

Now consider your ' Southern White Gentlemen hour' in the above context why isn't that stereotyping and offensive too? Two wrongs might add up to a republican but they never add up to a right or equity. It is in fact a battle of stereotypes and the good get lumped in with the bad.

BTW Kentucky and other rural areas are suspicious of strangers regardless of color. Imagine me not black or white with a southern accent walking into a some bars in the hood at night. Our son was in East LA and walked into a local bar and in his words was fearful of getting out alive now he's white. His solution was to make sure they heard his over emphasised Aussie accent “ g'day mate... what's good in beer here in America”. In the aend he was drinking with some locals as he worked through the beers and telling them about Australia's fearful 'drop bears' and ' blue ringed possums'.

PS he went to school in Charleston but went back to Aus to university and stayed with his Grandma.

You being lynched Hmmm me thinks you were projecting a bit.

PS

Tell L Joy that Maori is pronounced M- our- re and as a Polynesian (Hawaii) ancestry Blood (period) was important to them as was cannibalism. The don't practice the period blood bit or cannibalism any more.

They arrived in NZ about 1000 AD and didn't form separate cultures although they did separate as tribes. They differ from the Aussie Aborigine in that they arrived in Aust about 40-50 thousand years ago ( first out of Africa) and formed over 200 nations and cultures and even started to change phenologically. They had regular regional meetings for dispute or issue determination similar the the Native Americans (see the book 1491) .

Unlike the Maori they were way less savage and lived far more WITH the land. The Maori simply ate and exterminated their mega fauna and their enemies and each other. (see Maori wars and Moriori).

Pope Frankie Becomes Rome

Where do I start ? I have so many objections and questions of Latin America’s “Frankie goes to Rome” (80′s pop reference).
1. This particular person has ( in my mind) sectarian questions to answer if what I’ve read is even partially correct i.e. the close relationship with the previous Military Junta during the time when ‘people disappeared’, poor children also disappeared and some were ‘adopted’ by the Junta ‘s friends. His reasoning in defrocking priests that were opposition to the junta. And those who assisted i.e. referred rape pregnancies to a free clinic
2. in a country like the poor areas of Argentina forcing births isn’t just a matter of 6th century structure and 15th century dogma to breed faster than protestants, it a matter of survival of whole families. In today’s context such with nearly 8 billion people in comparison with perhaps a few hundred million in 540 something AD the whole notion is nothing short of Obscene.
3. The notion that people need someone to intercede for them with their * ‘omnipotent’ personal God* is intellectually preposterous.
4. Organised anything tends to be become a vector for individuals to seek power.
5. by definition the primary purpose on an on going organization is its own longevity not the people it was created to serve. i.e. the coverup of kiddie fiddling priests to protect the ‘good’ (sic) name of the Catholic church. Pity about the kids fiddled with.
6. Frank is the product of a 6th century Patriarchal kingdom dogmatised mindset . This includes expunging women from anything but servants of the Church (Institutionalised) as opposed to any spiritual sense. As for Vilifying homosexuals the hypocrisy with ‘Christian’ teachings is beyond belief.
7.Frank was elected by the politics of the ‘princes’ (Cardinals) of the church not by the people and certainly not by merit. As Machiavelli put it in the ‘Prince’ “politics is the art of the possible” and as such the axiom One can’t make a silk purse from a sow’s ear rings true. No matter how pure his starting morals/principals were he is constrained by the system
In short he is the product of a fatally, past its use by date horrendously corrupt(ed) system. To succeed in this system one needs to be morally flexible (restrained corrupted) much like Obama.
8. I read in the paper here that Cardinal Pell of Sydney has been appointed as advisor to Frankie on how to reform the Church….. you have to be kidding!! This guy thinks its 1940/50. He’s so out of touch he is no longer allow to speak on the sexually predatory paedophile priests because he cocked it up so badly … while he might be a nice enough man as such, but as a leader of anything talk about ‘barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen for women’ and ‘gay is a treatable ailment… all they have to do is be celibate’ type of theologian.
Conclusion, I think its time for the rusted rigid edifice of Catholic Church to be sold for scrap use the money to benefit those who need it and start again. Clearly Frankie is to me More of the same and needs to go the same way as the dinosaurs.
No I’m not impressed. Play in excreta and all you get is disease.

My answes to Kyle Rogers' racist tweet on 'Obama's children'

#tcot pic.twitter.com/Usx0rluZpd
My thinking is that this guy’s tweets are in the Asshat zone (period).
First of all I’d want to put him in proportion/perspective.
But rather than see his BS as proof of wider racism as a disease I’m inclined to examine why what is HIS motive.
If one looks at statistical distribution bell curves on any topic the most obvious feature is that the vast majority of people ( 66% approx) are within a bulls roar of the average (central “Standard Deviations”). Asshat ideas like Kyle’s actually relate to perhaps the far 15% of numnuttery.
15% of 330 million is a big number but it is still a minority… a noisy monkey poo throwing one but still a minority.
The key point of the distribution is where the average is.
And how many people who can be swayed to move to the same side of the the opinion as Kyle.
I’d point out that there are several types of racist . if one looks at his wider tweets a pattern appears (to me). I’m almost comfortable to suggest that it’s self serving (politically) motivated rather than racist per se i.e. if Obama was JUDGE Thomas ( a Republican)my bet is Kyle would be tweeting something about the Dems (socialist [sic]) policies. In reality he’s simply reaching to the bottom of cesspit to stir up the frightened rabble.
The second type of racist are are those who see being white as their identity in the similar ways as Twib’s Elon sees himself as Black a perfectly understandable position in either case. In the case of ‘rednecks’ ( the origins of which is red necked from working in the fields) given they have precious little else to distinguish them and their historic fear that poor blacks would deprive them of unskilled jobs it’s not surprising at all.
Let me illustrate the issue in terms of team sports like real FOOTball (Soccer .. a game where only feet are used, not mobile wrestling like gridiron ;-P) …… in truth I don’t like either. I choose this sport because i’s often a proxy for the same sort of identity bias/bigotry extremes as racism.
In Scotland two teams Celtic and Rangers are perfect examples . One nominally Catholic the other Protestants when they play police have to be vigilent and physically separate the two lots of supporters. The police have video surveillance outside the grounds to catch and exclude a minority of agitators. these thugs come ‘ tooled up’ with everything from iron bars, flares, mega phones to Cut throat razors… they mean lethal business..
Coincidentally there is a rough profile of them in that they are from deprived areas ( like Clyde side where the ship building industry collapsed , they are unemployed or have menial manual jobs . They are bitter and angry and actively look for someone to blame. Often fiercely Scottish as opposed to British and often White Supremacist (sound familiar?).
Going a little more afield if we examine say Polish fans when they play Germany the same extremist incendiary situation applies. The poles resent that they’re the poor cousins to the Germans because of their fate in and after WW2…. the German Thugs despise the Poles because they blame them for “stealing” their jobs by setting up cheap labor zones.
Occasionally there are in all examples a person who is sufficiently smart and articulate to be able to direct that unarticulated angst for their own benefit/ purpose. The end justifies the means. Kyle is one of the agitators I’d suggest that in all probability he is narcissistic , lacking in empathy and selfish.
Sadly USA has elevated this borderline sociopathic tendencies to desirable features to succeed in this objectifying capitalist (version 2.3) culture.
I guess my point is one must be certain one is diagnosing the correct problem before getting excited i.e. Kyle’s ‘racism’ is a symptom not necessarily the disease.
I accept to most black Americans the difference is moot but if one seeks a resolution cure well you see what I mean.